05- 1-06, LearnTexasHoldem:
Stating Your Hand and Computer Opponents
is it allowed, when there are only 2 guys left?
Top 3 Beginner Rooms
and another one: are there any computer that are superier than human player, like in chess?
i would very appreciate it if you could give me a short answer.
i like your site very much and it helped me a lot improving my yet poor gameplay.
peace,
mathias.
Answer:
Yes, you can talk during a hand and say whatever you like. There are a couple constraints though. One, what you say has to be said to the table. You can't tell your friend your cards and not the other guy in the hand. The rule is "share one, share all." Two, there are some exceptions to certain things depending on where you play. Most cardrooms don't allow dealer or player abuse. Some cardrooms are stricter than others regarding cursing. But you are welcome to talk to another player while in the hand and say whatever you like to psych him out. That wouldn't be considered classy, but it isn't against the rules.
Now, as for computer players and their ability now, I'm not aware of any that are competitive with expert players. There are plenty of projects, from commercial stuff to universities, that build poker bots. I've played with some and while they can most likely beat newer players, they can't hold their own with advanced players. The main problem is that when you play poker at a high level, adaptation is one of the key ingredients. The bots so far are fine for playing an ABC style poker game, but that won't do well against opponents who are basing their play in part on the opponents. Let me give you an example. I played a five handed game with some poker bots and I was able within five minutes to figure out what I had to do to keep beating them. I could just raise every hand and run through them. If I was reraised, then I knew the opponent had a good hand, but even a portion of those hands I would out flop them and win. Bluffing the bots was also far too easy. Every flop that I thought missed the bot, because of its tight solid play, I would exploit by bluffing. The problem again was adaptation. If I were playing human opponents they would quickly catch on that I was a maniac and punish me.
Are tough world class level computer players possible? Sure. But it isn't an easy task. Each move an expert human player makes is because of a reason, or number of reasons. A computer is capable of making those decisions too, if it had the same information and logic the human did. The difficulty comes because you have to have both an expert player who has the correct logic, and is able to communicate that logic in such a way that it can be used to create rules. So even if you have an expert, it doesn't mean that guy can tell you exactly how to win in a way that can be used to create rules. It is very difficult to boil everything down to a useful level. Chess is different because the processor can follow each line of logic to its end. Poker you can't do that. If poker were strictly a numbers game, then perfect playing bots would already exist. Numbers is only a part of the overall strategy. Context is important, like who is betting, how they are playing that day, how many chips they have, are they steaming, etc. And take the example I gave above with those bots and being able to raise them off any hand; how can the bot ever call off a big bluff? To come up with logic that mimics a gut feeling is very hard because even the human player doesn't know much more than it is a feeling his hand is good.
Lastly, certain games and structures are better for bots than others. No limit holdem is a game that would be hard to create bots for. The problem with big bet poker is that the bot's main issue is adaptation and unless the bot has the nuts each time, it would be hard for it to play well in big pot hands. Limit would be much easier. Of limit games, bots would do much better at a 10 person table or a heads up table.
To beat a 10 person limit holdem game, you need to play good cards in good spots. Much of the strategy is just to wait for good hands -- just ABC tight play. So that wouldn't be too hard to program a bot for. Heads up games are suited for bots too. The main strength of the heads up game is that there is only one opponent, which limits the variables. The fewer the variables, the easier it is to make good decisions. Contrast assessing an opponent's play after seeing him in a multi-way pot versus when you've seen him in only heads up situations.
The more opponents the guy you are watching has, the harder it is to nail his strategy down. Having one opponent, the same opponent, for the entire length of the game is ideal for the bot. Given that the bot is advanced enough to track hands and incorporate that info in its logic, that would help out a lot in the heads up games. Also, in heads up play you are playing many hands, which can aid the bot in moving in the right direction for cloudy decisions. See the bot can think in generalities instead of right and wrong, which is fine for heads up play because you'll be playing many more hands against the same guy. Thinking in generalities is easier, and more like how humans think. This wouldn't work well for other games because the fewer hands it plays against an opponent, the less information the bot has to work off of, and the more accurate the bot has to be to turn a profit.
Your rating:
Click on the clover of your choiceTop 5 Poker Rooms
| PlayersOnly Poker | Read Review |
|---|---|
| Poker Stars | Read Review |
| Full Tilt Poker | Read Review |
| Titan Poker | Read Review |
| Bodog Poker | Read Review |