07-12-05, LearnTexasHoldem:
Starting Hand Selection For Loose Tables
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I know well what to do with premium hands, but I wanted to know what are considered middle hand, and late position hand, is 56s better then K7s? both should b played when in the back? or mid would b alright? I knwo its based on how lose table, but let's say for typical table, not too lose, not too tight, which would fit most table?
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Answer: Thanks for the compliments and questions Valerie.
Is K8off a playable hand? I wouldn't consider this to be a good starting hand against a full poker table. The problem is that with so many people in, it is very likely someone else has a larger King. And when you both flop one, you'll be in kicker trouble. You want to play hands that if you do hit the flop you can play them with confidence. Exceptions to the K8off and other hands are when you are playing at a weak poker table that isn't full -- heads up, three way, short handed, etc.
The value of the hand goes up then as fewer people get dealt in. Another exception would be if you are trying to make a play preflop, stealing the blinds. Often times on TV you see the pros raising preflop with all kinds of weird hands. This isn't because they are good hands, it is because they are trying to steal the blinds.
What hands are playable in middle position? For a no limit holdem tournament, you can play a wide range of hands in middle position. Make sure you understand the difference between when you are the one doing the raising compared to you calling someone else's raise. You mentioned suited connectors. Notice the difference between if you were to initially raise the hand coming in and you called someone else's raise. In the latter, you'll have to flop something or out play the raiser to win -- which isn't easy. On the other hand if you are the one doing the betting and raising, they have to flop something to win. Also, in no limit holdem a big consideration that goes into each decision is how many players there are left to act behind you.
What you want to avoid is just being dead money, where you call someone's raise, then get reraised by one of the 7 players behind you, only to have to fold. If I were you, I would suggest playing mainly high card strength hands and then occasionally throwing in something like a suited connector for spice. Keep it balanced though, 56s doesn't play half as well as KQs. The K8off from above is really marginal. Hands that are playable from middle position when no one has come in yet are ones that you can come in with for a raise. A hand like AToff is fine or a middle pocket pair like 77.
As for 56s compared to K7s, it depends. If the pot was raised before me and I had to call, after some other players called too, I would prefer the 56s. The reason is that I would most likely not be competing for the same cards as the other players. If the flop came back my way, I would be in good shape. With the K7s, if it came back King high, I could get nailed by a larger King. On the other hand, if everyone folded to me and I was in late position, I would prefer the K7s since it has high card strength. Now, are you "supposed" to play these hands in middle and late position?
No, there is no set rule for hands that you should be playing. Don't feel like since you have a suited connector, you have to call. You don't. There are many times, even in limit games, where I just muck my suited connectors preflop since I don't feel like playing the hand right then (for whatever reason). Hands like suited connectors tend to give you a lot of fluctuation in your chips. And if you aren't the player with the initiative, you must flop something big to win. I would suggest playing hands like this only when you have a good upside -- say 5 callers preflop or something. As you get more experience you'll be able to play them with a little more flexibility, but until then if you just wait to see 4 or 5 people call first, you'll have a night upside that will keep you in the green.
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What we are trying to accomplish with starting hand considerations is to balance winning as much as we can, without incurring too much risk. Risk comes from playing a hand that is going to lose to someone else's hand. Say you call someone's raise with KJ when they have AK, you will lose in the long run. Position plays into this because we can already see how the hand is going to shape up. If 8 players have already folded in front of me, I can rule out they have AA when I have my AT. Like I mentioned above, when you play no limit holdem, your hand strength really is relative to how many people are in the hand with you, left to act.
Let's say I have the AT again in late position with 3 other people. The flop comes back Q-T-3. Notice how my position helps me. If they bet in front of me, I can muck. If they all check, chances are my AT is the best hand; even if it isn't, I'll be able to play it better from this position -- lose less when I lose and win more when I win. Starting hand selection is more made up of general concepts than rules. And you need to understand these concepts to play well in tournaments since eventually you'll be at a final table where the action gets down to three or four players.
Your play here will be different than it would be at a full table. Most players know this, but if you don't know the "whys" you can't adapt as well. I don't want to just list hands that are "good" from each position. That won't get you as far compared to if you know the underlying fundamentals for the game. A hand's strength is relative to how many people get dealt in preflop and a hand's post flop strength is relative to how many players are still in the hand.
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