06- 1-05, LearnTexasHoldem:

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Question: Howdy,

I read this post and had a follow-up question. It so happens at the casino where I play that people will show their hand to the guy sitting next to them or to others at the table. Once or twice doesn't bother me but after awhile I come to realize that the person being shown is getting a lot of free information regarding how the person who showed the hand plays. That's information they're getting for free, that I have to pay for in chips (have to call their bet!). So I'm curious as to the right way to handle the situation. I'm afraid to make a correction at the table, or to ask the dealer about it, because I don't want to be seen as a jerk but on the other hand it's an unfair advantage and the rules -- especially in a casino -- are the rules. What would you advise in this sort of a situation?

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The other question I had was regarding mucked hands at the end. I'm having a hard time understanding when I have to show my hand. For example, let's say we're on the river. I bet, you call. Because I have been called, I must show my hand. However, don't I have the right to see your hand as well since I was the bettor!? I talked to one dealer about this and he was telling me horror stories about how a guy mucked his hand, the winner demanded to see it, and the winner ended up losing because the mucker didn't realize he had a flush, etc.

But it seems that once you muck your hand is DEAD regardless of whether the cards are turned over... this whole thing is really confusing. I guess my point is that all players who call a river bet should be required to show their hands at the end, but someone will turn over his hand, and then people will muck because they know they can't win.

Thanks,

-Thomas

Answer: Technically, if the player across the table shows his friend next to him, you have a right to see too. This happens really often. The best advice I can give, unless you have a really good reason for seeing, is to just let it go. If you are curious, go ahead and ask the dealer to see the cards when the hand is over. If you keep pushing the issue though, it is considered being an ass.

For the question as to when you are required to show your hands, let me explain a bit more. A "mucked" hand can mean two different things and I think this is why you are getting confused. There is the "muck" pile and the cards in it and then there is a hand that is folded. A folded hand can be shown if someone requests, but if it touches the muck pile it can't be taken out. So in your example above where you bet and I call, you do have the right to see my hand if you ask; all though it isn't polite to do that unless you have a very good reason.

Typically when players ask to see cards, it will be because they were forced out of a hand and they are curious what the opponent had that did the betting, yet is still lost. For example, I'm in the hand with something strong but after the other two guys keep raising back and forth I muck, only to have them check down the river. Before the showdown, I could legitimately ask to see all hands. The dealer would then expose the cards after the winner was awarded.

As for the horror story about the winner demanding to see the loser's hand then actually losing himself, that could only happen if the cards didn't touch the muck pile. If the player threw them in, or the dealer made a mistake and put them in the muck pile, the hand is dead and couldn't be taken out, even if it was the winner. A folded hand is a dead hand, but there is still a difference between a folded hand on the table, and a folded hand in the muck. The mucked hand can't be shown, the folded hand can.

Lastly, the gesture of throwing your cards face down onto the table is considered folding. A person who does this (even if they misread their hand), can't claim the pot. Recently at one of my tables there sat a really weird guy who had no idea how to play (literally). I limped in on the button heads up and he threw his hand away. The dealer quickly gave him his cards back and said, "you are in the big blind." That was a big no no on the dealer's part. I corrected him on it, but then just let it slide, instead of calling over a floor person, because I didn't want to upset the novice player and I actually wanted him in the hand heads up. It turns out he actually caught a gutshot straight on the river to beat me, oh well. See if he threw his cards away, the hand is dead (even on the river).

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