03- 1-06, LearnTexasHoldem:
Ruling On Mucked Tourney Hand
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As you can see the drama starts. Much confusion at this point but Im not trying to give up this massive pot. So for arguments sake i tell the other player that I had KJ hearts and the dealer removes the first 2 cards from the muck pile and reveals what i said i had. I know you cant reclaim mucked cards, but I am curious as to how you would rule on this. The tournament director ruled in my favor so you know, on the reason that the other player didnt actually say " I call" and made no motions to push his chips in, he just stated "yea Ok". Interesting to say the least!
Answer:
That is a weird one. Well the things coming into play are:
- You can't remove cards from the muck pile.
- You have to protect your own hand at all times.
- You asked the dealer for confirmation of him folding and he didn't protest when the dealer told you he folded.
- Verbal commands are binding.
The tournament director or floorman's priority, over anything else, is to uphold a fair game. This takes priority over any other specific rule, like drawing cards out of the muck pile. As I see it, you definitely win the pot. The only question that I would have, is whether or not you should win the called money from the opponent on the river bet. This is all the dealer's fault since he should have made sure he had a move from the player before saying that to you. Saying, "yeah OK" isn't clear enough. The dealer needs either a motion of the player mucking his hand or a clear verbal command.
I'm not sure when each event happened in the actual hand, but this is what should have happened after the mix up:
- the dealer pushes you the pot and the opponent protests. Stop. Now, the dealer should at this point call the tourney director over and not try to settle this himself.
- the director finds out about the situation and in private asks you what your cards were. Then publicly he asks the opponent what he wants to do. The question is now not whether you win the pot or not, but if the opponent will lose the river bet too. See, this is why it is important that no one reveals your cards until he says what his intended move was. If he insists on calling, then you get that bet too.
This is actually more simple than it could be, since in either case you win the hand. It would be really murky if he actually had the winner. If that were the case then it would hinge the fact that he didn't protest when the dealer said he folded. There was time there between when you asked and the dealer said that and then subsequently pushed you the pot for him to object. Him not objecting suggests he didn't want to call. This could also fall under the rule of there being action behind him, even though this is during the showdown phase and doesn't include a bet. Say a dealer accidentally skips a player and there are now bets behind the player when he actually wanted to bet. The action stands. Here you folded based on the dealer's clear message that the opponent didn't call, so the action of you folding stands. You win.
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