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Another point is whether this is Limit or NL. In limit the maths is more clear, but if you miss on the turn is it worth calling a bet on the turn? On the other hand, if they bet into you for a good amount on the flop in NL how does that change things. I would think that it may be difficult to continue here (disregarding the type of players - focussing solely on the maths). If the best course of action is to muck then you are only seeing the turn - and thus your odds for raising the flop are skewed because you decide to pull out before the river.

I believe this is an interesting little aspect of the game.

What are your thoughts? What is the best course of action in general terms?

Thanks,

Anthony

Answer:

First of all, raising the flop with a flush draw isn't the only way to play the hand. There are plenty of situations where raising with the hand would be incorrect. Before you make that play you should consider a few things:

1. How many opponents you are against and your position relative to them. With some flush draws, you want players in the hand. For example, let's say you have A5s and the flop brings two of your suit. If there are a number of players in the hand, you would prefer not cutting any of them off by raising. A better move, if you were in middle or early position, would be to try and let someone else take the reigns and build the pot for you. Also, you don't want to raise too quickly in a big multi-way pot with just a draw, because there is a good chance someone will reraise you to try and protect their own hand (in no limit); cutting off players in the middle. Obviously, the fewer opponents in the hand, the more likely the raise will win the pot immediately. If you raise in a heads up pot, you could shut the other player out if he has a weak hand. One thing you have to ask yourself though, is basically will I make more money this way, or trying to actually catch my draw? One more situation deserves note and that is when you think your hole cards may be live too and winners if you hit, yet the more players in, the less likely that is to be true. Say you have QJs and the flop is all below that. You are fairly sure if you catch the flush, a Q or J that you'll have the best hand against the preflop raiser, but you don't want to risk letting other players continue to draw, incase they have a better Jack or Queen. In this situation, I prefer raising. Lastly, on position, don't forget that sometimes just calling a player's bet, will make them check to you on the turn. You don't always have to raise for a free card. (And also taking a free card isn't always the best either.)

2. Who the opponents are also figures into how you play a draw. Against a really weak player in no limit holdem, I would be less likely to raise my draw on the flop. The main reason is because it violates a fundamental rule to winning, which is avoiding putting money in with the worst hand. Against a weak player, all you have to do is show them a winner, so if you are behind in a hand, there is no reason to pump the pot. This also helps you avoid situations where they miss play their hand and go all-in, which in turn makes your decision harder. Against tougher opponents, semi-bluffing (which is what raising a draw is) works much better. Semi-bluffing allows you to mix up your play which makes it harder to play against you.

3. Texture of the board. Like I mentioned above, when you raise on the flop with a draw in no limit holdem, you always run the risk of getting reraised. You don't want them to reraise since you are behind in the hand. Each hand has a texture -- who raised preflop (if anyone), what your cards are, the number of players, the flop cards -- and by factoring this in you can get an idea as to what your options will do. Contrast the following two hands. The first hand you have KQs and the flop is Ad - 4d - 2s against a tight preflop raiser and another player. The second hand is when you have 98s and the flop is Jd - 7d - 2s against one average preflop raiser. If you raise in the first hand, chances are you'll get reraised a significant amount. In the second hand, there is a good chance that you won't.

Differences between limit and no limit: In the above points, most of the info is about no limit holdem. Draws in limit holdem are usually played to the river -- flush draws, open ended straight draws and double belly buster draws. In no limit holdem, draws are much harder to play since at any time, the opponent can bet enough to make calling not worthwhile. In both betting structures, position matters a lot. You always want to be after the preflop raiser in a heads up hand. This is so you can see what they do before you commit any chips. Also, you can just flat call their bet on the flop and a good percentage of the time they'll check the turn (if they don't have anything). In a multi-way game, you don't always want to act last. Often times with drawing hands, you want to act right before the preflop raiser. This way, you can check raise everyone in the pot after the raiser bets (this is more important for limit holdem than no limit). Also, in no limit holdem, a semi-bluff can be a much more powerful weapon than in limit holdem because you can raise more money. In a tournament, for example, you could go all-in on the flop with a hand like a flush draw and an overcard, and most likely shut another player out. Even if they do call, you still have lots of outs, almost even money. In a cash game, some players do the same style of move, to represent a set when they actually have a flush draw.

Now for your specific questions:

Is this action of raising the flop hoping for a free card the best move against only 1 opponent with a made hand?

- Yes and no. It is much more likely to work against just one opponent. This might not be the best way to make money with the hand though. I would look at the flop size. The larger the flop, the more I'm willing to try and win it immediately. If the pot is small, you aren't playing well by risking a lot to try and catch up to win it. A good rule is "don't squabble over the little stuff." Don't risk a lot to win a little. So if your intention is to win the pot immediately, then I would raise. One thing I want to mention is that the free card trick is pretty well known. If you raise the flop and hit the nuts on the river after getting a free turn, there is no guarantee someone will call the river bet. Also, by raising the flop with the draw, you open yourself up to getting reraised. The common defense for someone guessing you have a draw is to try and raise you out. A call might not alarm them so much. Lastly, I'm not convinced that this is better than calling the flop, then folding on the turn if you miss, or raising the flop and following up with a bet on the turn.

And what happens if they call and then bet the turn, thus skewing the odds on catching on the river?

- Limit holdem it usually makes no difference. You want to avoid calling multiple bets on the turn for a flush draw though. Say you are playing a pot three handed and on the turn someone bets and the other player raises. Now, the pot would have to be very large to justify calling to bets cold. On the other hand, if you had a bet in already, then it was raised, you would call the other. In no limit, things are a little murkier. If the person bets large and the odds aren't there, you have to fold. It is pretty unusual for someone to make this play, but it does happen. (Always look at all your options though at the time, as a raise may be occasionally good here too.) Make sure in no limit that you have an idea of how much you can milk the guy for if you do hit the flush on the river. If he is really committed to the hand, it is sometimes worth while to peel one more card off.

On the other hand, if they bet into you for a good amount on the flop in NL how does that change things.

- Yes and no. A large bet on the flop will usually translate to larger betting on the following betting rounds too, so it is all relative. What it really means is that you'll be playing a big pot here versus a regular pot. One helpful thing to remember in no limit holdem is that pots get built. If you raise $100 preflop and get a caller, the subsequent betting will be smaller than if you raised $200. The betting size is usually relative to the pot size. This is why chip stacks matter in no limit holdem so much. And I forgot to mention that above, so let me scribble something here. You want to draw against players who are deep (players with lots of chips). The ideal player to draw against is one that calls large bets and has lots of chips. You wouldn't want to draw against someone with a short stack because obviously the potential return is next to nothing. Chip stack really plays into the opponent's style too. Some players are rocks so even if you do catch your flush draw, it will be hard to squeeze a chip out of them. On the other hand other player's can't let go of a big hand and will pay you dearly. It is important to recognize the difference.

Above all when you play cards, you want to think of the outcomes. What will the effects be when I make a certain move? What am I trying to accomplish? No limit affords you some more flexiblity in this respect and with drawing hands, you have a number of ways to play the hand.

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