07- 6-05, LearnTexasHoldem:
Pushing All-in Against A Draw
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The small blind checks and the big blind bets out 300. At this point, I know I have him beat but to ensure I dont have the small blind maniac chase his flush, I go all in. The small blind sits there for minutes contemplating the call, at this point i know he has the flush draw. After a few minutes, he says i have to call so he calls. The big blind folds (he had K-Q). Small blind turns over A-3 of spades. I was right. The turn brings his spade, and im knocked out the first hand of the tourney. I was ticked off that he would risk his entire tournament on a flush draw so i had a few words with him telling him he made a horrible call, but he kept saying, "how can i lay down a straight flush draw".
I guess my question is, was that an overplay on my part??? Against anybody else, i wouldve just popped a standard re-raise, but I was afraid at least one of them was on a flush draw and i figured an all in bet would scare them away and I would take down a decent sized pot. The guy with K-Q said he wouldve called if the small blind didnt so i wouldve doubled up on the first hand had the flush draw folded. There was a mixed opinion among the players saying i shouldnt have been in the hand to begin with (which is idiotic since i was the one raising in position and making a play), or saying i shouldnt have gone all in which is a more valid argument. So was that play a bad move on my part?? I was thinking maybe I shouldve re-raised the 300 to 900 and if a spade didnt hit on the turn, then push all in. What do you think??
Answer: There are two ways of looking at this problem. The first way of looking at it is basically to say that I have the best hand now, and I'm going to try to bet enough to discourage draws from calling. I'm going to skew the odds so if they do make the call for the flush draw, they are getting incorrect odds. The second way of looking at this scenario is to base your play on what you expect from the opponents. How you play against a good player in a hand is different than how you would play against a bad player.
Let's start at the raise preflop. To raise on the button with a suited connector is a "play." This hand obviously doesn't figure to be better than what they hold, but you are hoping, like you said, to either get a good flop or leverage your position and preflop raise against them later in the hand -- maybe represent a big hand if scare cards hit. That's a regular play for most games. One point to make though, something that we will see throughout this discussion, is that your opponent wasn't a good player.
Part of the value raising with position is because you assume your opponent will need something to call with. If you know your opponent will call with anything, the play loses a lot of its power. Let me flesh this thought out a little. For example, it is a normal play in middle limit games and above, to try and steal the blinds from late positions if everyone folds to you. But if you know your opponent will always defend his blind, you don't keep doing it otherwise you'll turn your style into one that is loose aggressive -- no better than his. Overly aggressive play doesn't work well against calling stations. To beat a calling station, you show him good hands.
This is true for preflop and after. If you keep trying to pump the pot in late position against a calling station, he'll just keep picking off your weak hands with bottom pair, middle pair, etc. Always take into account how your opponents play. If you know he'll call, there is no point in raising unless the hand is good and you want to play a bigger pot with him.
Now the flop... That's about as good of a flop as you could have hoped for, especially against two callers. The small blind checked and the bad player bet, suggesting he had a King or the flush draw. Now comes the crucial decision of how to play against the bad player. If we know that he only has a flush draw, but will call with it if we bet, will we still go all-in? In a tournament, I probably would not. If it were a cash game, I would.
The problem the bad player gives us is that if he has a flush draw, he will get there a third of the time and we aren't even sure he doesn't already have us beat. Two small pair is not that strong of a hand because it can easily be counterfeited. If he only had a King, the bad player might also call a lot of the time, in which case he has 6 outs to win. I don't think it was a bad play, but I think that what might have been better is to smooth call the bet. You do this in part to see what the turn card is, but also to let the third player get in the hand for less money. If the turn wasn't a spade, you might make a good sized raise then.
Remember, this is the first hand of the tourney and you have a lot of chips to work with. When a bad player is in the hand, sometimes you have to play the hand differently. Don't get me wrong, him playing badly doesn't make him harder to beat, it just means that you don't get too fancy with him. If you wait to the turn to put in the money, you have a much better chance of knocking the other player out, plus you limit your own risk some.
As for whether the player with the straight flush played his hand incorrectly, here are the odds after the flop for winning:
Flop: Kd - 4s - 5s
A3 (gutshot straight flush draw) - 43%
45 (two pair) - 43%
KQ (top pair) - 14%
The A3 was even money with you.
Would you want the KQ out of the hand? Pushing all-in might only get called by a hand like a flush draw or a hand that already has you beat, like two pair, a set, a pair and a flush draw, or a hand like A3spades. You might think that you are getting good value against a bad player since he may end up calling you with a hand like KQ for all his money, but notice in the real hand he didn't. This brings me to my last point. Be careful in no limit holdem when you are attempting to "protect" a hand because often times you raise so much that the only time you'll get called is if you are beat.
Try to play your hands in such a way that you get value, while not incurring too much risk (i.e., all your chips). You need to look at the problem from both sides. Sure you'll win against a flush draw 2/3s of the time, but are you comfortable risking all your chips when a third of the time you'll lose?
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