10-28-04, LearnTexasHoldem:
Passive Players In No Limit Cash Games
Top 3 Beginner Rooms
10 seat, No limit with 25c/50c blinds. The table is full. Prior to this I had been betting aggressively, in position, and stealing a few hands etc. I'm in late position (1 in before the button). Everyone calls to me: I raise to 3x the big blind holding KTs. 5 fold. The flop is 6K9 rainbow. Everyone checks to me. I bet $2.50. 3 fold the other person calls. the turn comes (I forget what it was, but it was nothing special!), the other player checks I bet again. $4 this time. The other player calls. The river comes, the other player checks I bet again, $4. He calls and shows 3 sixes and cleans up. I'm devastated. It never crossed my mind that he had a pocket pair! This happened again to me at the same table with a different player in the same session! Dumb or what!
Now throughout the whole session, about 3.5 hours of play, hardly anyone, except me, raised preflop, regardless of position. This made things very scary, as you couldn't put anyone on a hand at anytime! They could be holding AA or 32o. Obviously, everybody at the table is trying to trap everbody else. Its a pity I didn't realise this before I got beat by a set again! LOL! How should I go about beating this? Can it be beaten? I didn't want to start raising to $5 pre flop, as that just puts more of my cash at risk and 10x the big blind is a bit excessive.
Should I be betting more than 3x the big blind, in late position, to try and force them out as the've already bet $0.50 and an extra $1 isn't that much? Should I be betting aggressively UTG and in early position, to try and force them out before the have a chance to call, but limit my hands to the top half a dozen say?
Answer: Thanks for the question -- it's a good one. I think the reason many people slow play a lot when they first start playing is because of the movie Rounders. I think most new players see slow playing as the ultimate move in poker when in actuality the opposite is true. As you move up in stakes, players become more and more viscous and slow playing doesn't happen as much. Trapping still happens a lot in no limit holdem but it is set up and is only effective because of previous aggression (lots of betting to confuse their hands).
I still run into passive players in no limit games, not limit as much. What I do is try to spot them early on and then adjust my play later. Let's take your KTs for example. You bet on the flop and then just one player called. If I had tagged that player as a "sand bagger" (someone who slow plays every hand) and he called my bet on the flop I would be a bit suspicious after that. I might actually check it down the rest of the way.
In no limit holdem, the bets each betting round usually increase. So often times a bet early on will signal you to another players hand strength so you can avoid calling or betting later. For example, sometimes you'll raise with KK and only a tight player will call you. The flop will bring a dreaded Ace. What I do is go ahead and bet the pot and see if the person calls. If they call, I know I'm beat. These people are referred to as tight passive. They play only premium hands but they play them in a way that is really weak -- they just check and call and maybe raise at the end. So my advice for the tight passive players is to go ahead and do a feeler bet on the flop and then play it from there. If they call, back off.
In addition to the tight passive players, there are loose passive players (these are the best kind and you want as many of them at the table as you can get). A loose passive player will just be happy with calling you down the whole way with bottom pair or with their set of sixes. What you do with these players is to do what's called "value betting." What that means is you just keep firing away, like you did, and just hope for the best. Most likely they don't have you beat if you have top pair and you'll win more often than not.
The key distinction to beating these players is to tag them as either playing only really good hands or calling with anything after the flop. For the loose ones you keep betting your decent hands, for the tight ones you do a feeler bet and then go from there.
As for how much to raise, it depends on what you are hoping to accomplish. A general rule for raising is that if there is already a lot of money in the pot, you'll need to raise even more to get everyone out. An example of that would be if everyone already called twice the big blind already and you are on the dealer button holding pocket Aces. A normal sized raise of 3x or 4x the blind won't do it -- you need to raise much more because you want only one or two callers.
Another point on how much to raise preflop is, how much are they willing to call? If you get guys coming in with anything for any amount, raise as much as you can get away with! Test the waters and see what usually gets people to fold preflop and what doesn't scare them. Being able to spot the ones that will call big raises preflop is very rewarding.
Just yesterday I noticed some woman who wouldn't fold once she committed the big blind. I raised her way more than anyone else preflop and everytime she called. So the last point is, raise more if you want to cut people off and there is already a lot of money in and raise less if you just want to build a big pot incase you hit the flop.
Your rating:
Click on the clover of your choiceTop 5 Poker Rooms
| Colt Poker Free $10 | Read Review |
|---|---|
| Cake Poker Free $10 | Read Review |
| Minted Poker | Read Review |
| Poker Stars | Read Review |
| 888poker | Read Review |
