06- 7-06, LearnTexasHoldem:
More NL Cash/Tourney Questions
Thank you very much for answering the questions on my last email. Your answers are insightful, and are a great encouragement to me.
I have a few more NL cash game and tournament questions that I would like to seek your advice:
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1. I often see people buying in with less than the maximum in no limit cash games. For example, in NL100, I often see people buying in with $10, $15, $20 or may be $40. I understand that playing the short stack has its own advantages, so my question is how I should play with them when I have at least a full buy-in. For example, I am in early positions and I limp in with 88. Then all fold to a short stack at middle position with only $20. This person raises to $4 and everyone folds including the small blinds and big blinds. Now it goes back to me. If I call his raise, likely I would not hit my set on the flop and there are usually over cards making me hard to continue. Moreover, the implied odds are not there. If I reraise him, he would probably goes all in and there is really no point to gamble $20 with only 88 as he probably has at least two overcards . Is folding the best option here? I really dislike playing at a table full of short stacks, as it would be hard to play low pocket pairs, and I would have to switch to playing only high pocket pairs, AK, AQ, KQ and AJ etc. Do you have any advice against these "short stack specialist"?
2. I sometimes play NL tournaments, and I think it is a lot different than playing in a cash game. In a cash game, you can always reload, and there is always a chance to win back the money. However, in NL tournament, as my chips are limited, if I keep calling a raise with small pocket pairs, it would probably cost me too much chips before I hit my set. So I usually restrict myself to playing the big pairs and AK, AQ and may be KQ and AJ. I don't even play suited connectors. Playing with this strategy usually makes me the short stack when the blinds go up. Then I switch to all-in or fold mode. When my hands hold up, I usually go back to average or even above average at the later stage of the tournament. Sometimes I can even get to the final table with the all-in or fold mode. However, I am usually the one with the least chips at the final table. So my question is, how do you accumulate lots of chips and cruise all the way to the final table? What kind of hands would you play?
3. I like to watch High Stakes Poker on GSN very much, and I am totally surprised that the professionals seemed to play a very loose cash game. Like someone may raises with A4o, then someone calls with K9s. Then when the flop spikes a 9, the person with K9s would believe that he has the best hand. What is going on? Are they trying to keep the game loose, so when they have big hands, they will get the action they want?
Thank you again for your time and effort.
Keep up the good work,
Kenneth
Answer:
1. In a no limit game where there is a fix limit for the buy-in, NL100, NL1000, NL2000, etc, it is always better to have a full buy-in in front of you. The reason is you can't predict when you'll flop that monster and want to get all the money in. This reminds me of players who use short buys in live games. The players who do short buys are rarely good players. They do it because they are either under bankrolled or they want to get all-in with a hand and hope to get lucky. (Live cardrooms limit the amount of short buys a player can make before they have to make a full buy.)
The biggest variable I would be looking for, in how to form a counter strategy, is what kinds of hands he is playing. What is the guys intention? Is it that he wants to put all the money in? Or does he just play normally? Is he playing solid hands that normal players would raise with? Or is he getting loosey/goosey and playing weak hands like Ace little? Based on that information, I would either play with him, or treat his play like I would any other player's. The amount of chips also makes a difference. If he only has 10-20 bucks in the 100 game, then that isn't nearly of a concern and it takes the "play" out of the hand. On the other hand, 40 bucks in a NL100 game would be treated like a regular stack.
Take your 88 for example. Say you limped in and he raised. If he had 20 left and the flop looked unthreatening, and he was a loose raiser, I might put a bet out and see what he did. Remember that just because you call preflop, it isn't a committal to the river. Often times hands are best played like this in no limit. Say you have JJ against someone's AK. If you both go all-in preflop it is a coin flip. If you just call preflop and then see that no ace or king is on the flop, then push in, the guy's odds are 3:1 against him. (Remember this important tip. Many players wouldn't have been knocked out of tourneys if they just played their TT or JJ a little differently.) You could do the same thing with the 88 if you suspect he only has overcards. An all-in may not even be necessary. Say he has $20 and raises to $4 preflop. You call. Now there is $8 in the pot. You can come out firing into him for half the pot and see what he does. Again, it's difficult for me to give detailed advice because I don't know the player's history. The more likely he is to raise with a weak hand, the more likely I'll play my hands against him. You need to be able to do this as a player: the isolation. If you notice someone is getting out-of-line, you want to have the grit to take a hand like 88 and try to punish him. You'll be wrong some of the time, but most of the time it will be worthwhile. After all this is what poker is about: punishing worse hands/players.
Lastly, part of your question was in regards to hands that need implied odds to make worthwhile -- hands like small pocket pairs. It is true that if the player is a solid raiser, has a small stack and you have 22 against him, it most likely won't make money in the long run. The way I look at it though, is that it won't cost me much either way. I won't make as much money if I hit, but I don't lose as much if I am wrong. I'll be less likely to fold postflop with my 22 if the guy only had $12 left. He doesn't have enough money to semi-bluff me out of a pot.
2. Tournaments are a lot different than cash games and often times players who do well in one, don't do well in another. Typically the tournament player doesn't do as well in cash games. (Some players follow the tourney circuit, not to play in the tourneys but in the side games because they are so juicy.) The two differences -- chips not having real value and the time element -- translate to more reckless play in tourneys. You can't get away with as much in a cash game because players are in no rush to take your money. A good player will wait until he has an edge before he puts money in. In a tournament you have to play to win. So what you are trying to do in a tournament is play a solid game, avoiding other player's good hands, defend your chips some, and supplement this typical good play with some steal raises. I use that term "steal raise" loosely because it isn't just for stealing blinds. I'll define a steal raise as one that is done because you are leveraging things other than the hand's strength against the opponents. Normally you play a hand because it is a good hand. A steal raise is done because you have to play, maybe a tight or predictable player is in the blinds, maybe you haven't raised in a while, etc. What is the alternative? The alternative is what you, and many other players face: playing a survival game where, unless the deck hits you in the face, you never make it to the final table -- and if you do, you don't have any chips. Ever wonder why the poker elite, guys like Phil Ivey, Jon Juanda and Hellmuth make so many final tables? It isn't because the have gotten a rush of good cards throughout the whole tourney. It is because they are masters of exploiting even the smallest of edges to amass chips, including playing trash hands (not all the time -- just as a supplement). Here are some tips on how to do this:
* The less you raise, the more players give you respect. Remember that. If you haven't raised in a while, taking a stab at a pot often works out.
* The less well you are doing, the less respect you'll get. The better you are doing, the more respect they will give you. This is always true for poker.
* Even if you get one caller, that isn't a bad thing. Most of the time the opponent will miss the flop and give you credit for a hand when you bet.
* Look for predictable players as opposition. You would prefer tight predictable players behind you or in the blinds. Not only will they fold more preflop, but also on the flop. You'll have a much better idea of what they have when you are against them. Think about what the opponent may have, but don't be prematurely pessimistic. You don't want to think, "Damn an Ace high flop, he has to have an ace." No he doesn't. It is possible that he is thinking the same thing and will fold when you bet.
* When you represent a hand, it is a bluff. What you are doing is raising preflop and hoping to bluff your way through the pot. Bluffs work best when the opponent doesn't assume you are bluffing. Obviously, right? This is why it is more likely you'll get credit for a hand when you aren't in a bluffing position preflop: button or close to it. That's not to say you shouldn't apply pressure now and then when on the button, I just mean that you should consider steal raises from all positions.
* Big tip: I prefer to raise with hands that aren't likely to be dominated. Say you raise with some garbage like 74s and get one caller, let's say the big blind. You assume he has an ok hand, not a monster. He sees your raise a legitimate one (he has no reason to think otherwise). His options are: hit a flop and play back at you (not likely), bluff (very risky and unlikely), or miss the flop and fold (most likely). Many good things can happen for you in this scenario. The most likely scenario is he will miss the flop and fold. The flop may be Ace high and he'll give you credit for an Ace and muck. Any scare card on the flop could do. Next, and often way more profitable, is for him to totally misread your hand when you do connect with the flop and you punish him. Say the flop comes back A77 and he has AK, hoping to trap you. You get his whole stack. See notice how you can get credit for a big flop, but also connect with the trash and have a legitimate hand. It's kind of like you have the high and low both covered (don't get carried away with this idea though). If he does hit and check raise or bet out into you on the flop, no problem, you just let it go. No one gets to see what you had and you maintain a tight image, which means you could try again in a bit. I would prefer to make a steal raise with a 74 or 97 than I would with a hand like JT or K8. Notice how if I had JT and hit a flop, how things change. Say the flop is J-8-2. I don't want action on that flop with JT in no limit holdem. I would feel much safer with a 7 high flop with 74 than I would the JT. Also, I reduce the chance of my opponent misreading my hand when I play something like K8 or JT against him. Again, I want to avoid steal raises with hands that are likely to be dominated by my opponents if they call ("domination" means my opponent has a hand like AJ against my JT). With the weak hands I have deception, credit if a scare cards hit, an easy fold if I get into some heat, and the chance of busting them if they misread me.
* What kind of hands? Doesn't matter. Again, you aren't playing them for their value. You can play any garbage hand or middle hand: 73, 94, 98, T7, etc.
* Watch out for the small stacks. Small stacks behind you or in the blinds are looking for reasons play. Middle and large stacks are ideal, unless the small stack is really tight.
* Postflop skills are really important for these hands. Pay attention to the opponents' play. Think about what they may have and what they think you have. What an expert player is able to do is play a big pot with a hand like 93s and make the right decisions when put to the test. Careful attention to the opponent's play is key. The more you can put them on a hand, the more likely you'll be able to make the right decisions post flop. There will be times when you make steal raise with a hand like 93, hit a flop like 8-3-2 and have tough decisions. The experts will be able to play well in that spot based on info they've attained on the opponent and may make a big pot. This is tricky business because the opponent has no idea what you have and you are basing some of your play on his reaction to your play.
* Position on your opponent. Never call a raise with a hand like this. Only open raise. The value of the hand is the pressure you apply on a single calling opponent. It's ok to make the raise from any position on the table, you would just prefer to act after the opponent.
* A lot of it is also based on feel. Sometimes you can get a sense that table is slowing down some. The pots may be smaller for a few rounds, for example. Or they may be reeling from a big bad beat the previous hand.
So those are some tips. Definitely not exhaustive, but something... This part of the game is more of an art than a science. It's based a lot on feel, like I said, and represents some of the most difficult part of the game, which is why we only see a handful of pros at final tables over and over.
3. The short answer is that as you move up limits, the game changes too. Be careful when watching pros play versus pros that you don't use their play in your game, as not all of it will apply. The game is looser than what you would expect, but in a different way than a low limit loose game: The game is far more aggressive, with players making open raises with a wide range of hands, and the pots are usually heads up. See, what happens when everyone knows everything about the game? To win you have to start relying more on other edges besides the cards. This includes exploiting position, players in the blinds, bluffing, etc. These are elements in lower limit games, but not nearly as much as in upper limit games. When the opponent is capable of folding, aggression pays big. And when the opponent is a skillful reader, you have to do a lot to maintain deception. Games at upper limits resembles heads up games. For example, in a regular ring game if I had 88 against one player and he bet out into me when the board had two overcads, I would assume he had me beat and fold. In a heads up game, or in an upper limit game, I can't assume that. It is just as likely that he thinks the flop missed me and he is betting, or he is betting overcards for value, ace high, etc. Because the game is so tough, everyone tries to push an edge. The best way is what I mentioned above, namely, to open raise and make someone in the blinds play against you with a random hand. There is inherent weakness in having to act before your opponent which you don't really appreciate unless you play heads up or upper limits.
Maybe if I explain the thought process behind both hands it would help:
A4o Open:
- I haven't raised in a while, I'll raise and represent a big hand and hopefully pick up the blinds. (Picking up the blinds is necessary, as well as buffering my good hands some so I get action on them -- maintain some deception.)
- A4 isn't a horrible hand and is a favorite against a random hand (the big blind)
- One caller is fine, most of the time I'll win with a bet or I could even connect and win by hand strength.
- I can represent a hand if the flop misses me. Bluffing is always an option too if I think the opponent has a weak hand that I can run through.
- (other psych. stuff could be inserted here, like the player in the big blind just losing a big pot or playing badly)
K9s Call Preflop:
- I assume the open raise is made with a hand that isn't that much better than mine.
- I have position, meaning I can take the pot away if weakness is shown -- either by a bet that I perceive to be a bluff or by the opponent checking. With position it is less likely I'll be trapped. With position I can also get free cards if I like.
- K9s is deceptive.
The postflop play can be explained by understanding that in bigger games where there is a lot of betting and raising with very light hands, you don't assume a person has a monster, but the opposite: You assume he has nothing and go from there. Middle pair can be a very strong hand on the right flop. Say the flop was Q-9-4 in the above hand. That is a good flop for the guy with K9s, enough so for him to put in a raise.
You would assume that if someone just played a tight solid game, they would kill the game. Not so though. It would be very hard for that player to get any action with his/her hands, even if he limped in with them. And when the player did get action, it would usually be by a better hand.
So have fun watching them splash around and flip racks, but don't take too much of it to heart until you are playing in the 100k game. By then you won't need to ask about it =)
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