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Now I realilze the irony of this situation is that these players are beating me with the same strategy I used to be able to employ successfully, so in response to this new wave of tight players I've tried to adapt a more loose strategy with limited success. I read supersystem years ago and recently dusted it off and read it again and I also read your "No limit holdem strategy" articles. Now the resounding theme here is to play more raggedy looking hands such as 64s and A2s by limping (usually) in preflop and hoping for a good flop (meaning better than a pair) and trying to break someone with TPTK or a high pocket pair which are the popular hands for the hordes of tight aggressives.

However I have some issues with some things that Doyle and you have stated. Both of you stress that you should try to see flops as cheaply as possible with your suited connectors or gappers. But when you think someone has a big pair, its probably a good idea to call their 3,4,or 5x raise to see if you can outflop them and take their stack. Now this sounds good in theory but is much harder in reality. So I was wondering what your thoughts were on some of the following scenerios.

1. You are sitting at a table where you can hear it squeak. Everyone has tightened up according to the "top 10 hands" article they read a few days ago. You are in middle position with 75s and there are no limpers. Do you limp or raise, and why? Let's assume you limp and the guy on the button raises to about 5x the big blind and you can reasonably assume he has AA or something close to it. You are both sitting on about 100 Big blinds, do you call or fold? Will 75s hit often enough for this to be profitable?

2. You are sitting at a table with a majority of the "tighties" but there are a couple of guys who seem to like raising between 4x-6x the big blind preflop with a majority of their hands (probably any combination of 2 face cards). However they don't get commited easily and usually checkfold if they dont hit or maybe make a continuation bet but give up if they encounter some action. Now you have 75s and are sitting in MP when one of these guys raises 5x in EP. Do you call or fold or reraise? If you call, are the implied odds there if you hit your hand considering these guys tend to fold when pressured? And reraising seems rather scary because you dont want to start reraising all of their preflop raises and turn into a maniac just waiting to give his stack away.

3. Are there any other factors you consider when thinking of calling a raise with a rag hand or throwing it away? So far I've tried to limp in with these hands and tend to call raises only when I have reason to believe they have a big pair in the hole and are "breakable." I believe this is the jist of what you are trying to teach, yet I still seem to only be able to break even. I will call away 30-50 BBs preflop with suited connectors, gappers, pocket pairs and suited aces waiting to hit, and when I do hit, I win my 30-50 BBs back. How can I change this? Should I throw away the 75s sometimes to limit how often I limp in? Should I only limp from late position to avoid being raised out of the pot?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Answer:

Thanks for these good questions Ed.

Before I get into your specific questions, let me list a few thoughts about this problem:

- Poker is evolving and there are more educated people. And with more educated players, I think the earning rate of a mechanical tight player will continue to dry up. This is similar to what happens when you are a solid middle limit player and you try to go and move up to bigger games. Suddenly, the game seems strange and people seem to be playing weird compared to what you use to see from winning players. Each level change, like going from middle to upper limit, has conceptual shifts. What beats a low limit game, won't beat an middle limit game, and likewise comparing middle to upper. And as you keep moving up in limits, because there is such a high priority on deception and because everyone plays so aggressively, your edge gets smaller. For example, in a regular middle limit game, I'm really not looking to make a lot of tough calls. In an upper limit game, I'm going to have. It seems like playing more recklessly, but it isn't since what you are doing is putting your own play into the context of your opponents play, such as, "I know Bill will bet in this spot routinely with any hand, so I can't rule out my pair or Ace high isn't good." I think to a degree regular games are looking more like bigger games in that it is hard to get action, hence you need more deception (the "toughness" part isn't as bad). This sounds bad and discouraging, it isn't though. The games can be beat, it is just that you need to acquire some new skills, which you are already doing.

- A useful exercise is to think why you'll beat a specific game. If we looked at your strategy before, we could pinpoint your winning to playing better hands than your opponents and getting them to hold up enough to turn a profit. This is breaking down now because as the players are becoming more educated, they aren't as willing to make big errors. Think about what are your opponent's weaknesses, how you are going to get value on your good hands, and how much defending you need to do with marginal hands. Also, think about the plays you actually make an why. It is easy to slip into mechanical play. You make a raise here, a bet there, and you don't really think about why you are making those plays. Each play should have a goal and often times the plays we make don't best serve that goal. We read something and then we just make these kneejerk plays. An example might be how you play AA preflop in a tight game. Do you always raise it preflop, and if so why? Do you always reraise it preflop? Why? Say you have top pair on the flop with a good kicker heads up. How do you play it and why? Do you just raise it immediately? If so, why? What is your goal and why are you raising? Which leads me to my next point...

- Deception... It is very easy for someone to play well against you if they know what cards you have. You end up running into bad situations with your good cards, like you mentioned. You have AK and the only way you are involved in a big pot with it is if someone else has KJ and has two pair, or something, otherwise you just win a small pot. I just wrote a little something on deception in the tips section: Deception Is At A Premium. Included in that is stuff about what I just mentioned: why you make the moves you do and if they accomplish the goals. Part of the problem with standard book play now is that it has no deception at all. Here is a concrete example of what I'm trying to get at: A typical mechanical play would be to raise someone on the flop if you had top pair good kicker. Say I have A4s against you and the flop is Ace high and you raised some preflop. If I bet and you raise me, or if I check raise you and you reraise me, what do you think I would do, knowing how you play? Clearly, my A4s isn't good, therefore the only way you can win is if make a big error. Now on the other hand if you just call me, then what do I do? Can I put you on a hand? What am I supposed to do on the turn now? Should I lead out and bet, what if you call again? Should I check? And If I check and you bet, then what do I do? By you not making the standard play, it puts me in a bad spot and I can't help but make errors. Also by playing your hand in a nonstandard way, you are allowing me to play a worse hand than yours, which is essential to winning. With any hand that assume is the winner, the goal is to extract the maximum from your opponent. Raising initially, or doing the standard play, doesn't always best serve that goal.

- Play your opponent's hand and not just yours. One of the key skills you have to develop to beat tougher games is to not just base your decision making on what you have but also on what your opponents may have. When you play your opponent's hand too, you open your game up a lot too, which before might have seemed like loose play: calling down with weaker hands, bluffing more, value betting more, etc. This is crucial if you are going to try to play a more tricky game. If you try to play your same tight strategy but just play more cards, you'll find that you never really see a good "safe" flop.

The other players can't see your cards (obviously). They assume you have something and base their play on that, not on what you really hold. The more intune you can be with their line of thinking, the more you can maniuplate it. Take our A4s AK example from above. You are outplaying me here by just calling. That trips up my line of thinking and exploits it. I assume that if you had me beat you would play back at me here, as most players would do, but you don't. You make a lot more money with the hand than if you just played it mechanically and thought, "I have AK here, I'll reraise." Understanding what the opponent is thinking helps tremendously with marginal hands too, ones like your 75s. If I raise with that hand and hit a flop, like middle pair, I can't assume that my opponent thinks I have 75. He more likely thinks I missed a flop like 8-7-2. And if that is true, then his reaction to my betting has to be qualified. Understanding his perspective guides my play. You can win a lot of pots like this when someone makes an incorrect read. If you play hands like this, you need to be able to read opponent's thinking too. It's a marriage to be successful.

Now to your questions:

1. Would I limp or raise with the 75s here? Most likely I wouldn't play the hand. Obviously this is weak hand and if I play it, I'm opening myself up to losing some chips. Limping in with it some of the time is ok, but as a general rule limping with it isn't good. If I limped and an opponent raised 5x the BB, then I would fold. The main reason for folding here after limping is that I'm going to miss the flop so much with the hand that it isn't worth calling that much preflop. Now, you remember the rule that it is better to be a bettor than a caller, right? That rule applies to hands like this too. If you are going to play some cards like this in very tight games, calling another person's raise isn't the best way to go about playing. You just end up calling off a lot of chips. It is better to occasionally raise with this hand, especially if the opponent's behind you are tight players. First of all, no one has signaled that they have a monster hand. Secondly, when you raise it puts them at a big disadvantage if they are the ones who have to call and hit a flop. When you do this preflop your intention is to represent a big hand and bet into them on the flop, forcing them to hit a hand to play. This can work out well for you since if the flop is all rags, you will connect and if the flop is Ace or King high, then often times a bet on the flop will win. Thirdly, when you raise and a tight player enters the pot with you, it is easier for you to put that player on a hand. And when you have accurately put him on a hand, you can use that information to win the pot regardless of what you have (this is being a tough player, versus just a booksmart one).

Now, I said as a general rule, I wouldn't play the 75s here. I would do it only as a "mixer upper" hand, which by definition isn't something that is done often. Part of your job as a winning player is to keep a pulse on the opponent's view of your play, your table image. Contrast me just winning a couple pots with good hands (that the table saw) and a tight player being in the big blind when I have 75s, and if I just won a couple pots with these types of hands. Or contrast if I have just raised three hands in a row, regardless of what they were, and if I hadn't played a hand in four rounds. The way the table views me is starkly different, so my counter play will be too. A 75s raise might be a good play every now and then. To know when, I have to be attentive, flexible and avoid mechanical play. Always playing it is wrong and always folding it is wrong. No limit holdem is a game of feel. You feel how the table views you. You feel how each player views you. And as you get better you'll rely more on those feelings. You might be in a hand with a player who you've beat up all night and you know he is gunning for you; you can feel his frustration. This might be a good time to set a trap and see if you can break him. Maybe you overbet, maybe underbet and feed him the rope. You don't just bet x amount of the pot because that is the standard play.

2. The answer to this question is similar to the first, namely, I want to try to avoid creating difficult situations for myself. By calling a raise preflop with 75s, I'm going to make it hard on myself the rest of the hand. If I flop a 7 or 5 on the flop, how can I play it well? I can't stress enough how important initiative is in no limit holdem. Being the caller puts you at a huge disadvantage. And never forget that you don't need as good of a hand to bet with as you do to call with. As a solid tight player, you can raise with any two cards occasionally and profit by it solely because you are forcing your opponent to hit a hand to call your flop bet. He has to give you credit for something when you do this rarely. That doesn't mean that it will work the opposite way. You can't call someone's raise with 75s and end up winning. Again, the vast majority of the time you'll miss the flop and have seven high. Or you'll maybe hit a pair, but even then you can't play it confidently, or you could easily get outrun. My suggestion here would be to let them take the pot, then what for an opportunity when you can be the person who is opening with the raise.

Don't forget the fundamentals of the game. It's easy when you aren't seeing the results to start changing everything, but that's when you get into real trouble. Most of the game that won before will still win now. All you need to do is adjust just a bit to add a little more deception so that you can get value on your good hands. How much? Ninety percent or more should be the same solid play, only that last bit should be tricky because deception comes at a cost. What the guys with the two face cards who are raising preflop a lot are doing is basically just taking jabs at little pots against the blinds. A blind hand has bad position and most of the time a crappy hand. They raise and then shoot at the flop once and most of the time win uncontended. And when the a good play has to defend out of his blind, it takes him out of his comfort zone -- he doesn't have a chance to play a strong hand when he wants. This is a better chance for you to pick up a pot here and there that it is to try and over power or outrun a preflop raiser.

3. Let me clarify my tips. In weaker NL games with inexperienced players, I recommend seeing as many flops as you can, within reason. The main reason for this is that the initial limp bet is really small in comparison to what you could win from them. (And the assumption is that as a good player you can make better decisions than them postflop.) This makes starting cards that can flop big hands good. Now, that isn't to say that you should be calling weak player's raises with junk. That would be giving your money away. And you need to understand that 75s calling a raise is different than 22 or 33. With 22 or 33, if you catch the flop you'll have a made hand, and a tough one to read. With 75s, if you catch your four flush, you still will miss it 2/3s of the time. And if you do hit the flush, that is pretty obvious to see.

Your game isn't exactly a weak one. It is a tight game where everyone is waiting for big hands. In that game my advice would be a little different. If players fold to much, you should bet more. Just like if they bet too much, you should call more. I wouldn't limp in so much preflop since it is likely every hand will be raised. Play a solid game and try to mix it up some now and then with raises with suited connectors preflop. And you don't have to raise a ton, learn to build some pots. You can raise 3x the big blind with a lot of hands preflop and then make a small bet on the flop to see what happens. This also gets the opponent's desensitized to your raising (a benefit when you have a big hand). Poke at them if they aren't willing to play unless they have a big hand. And if they tell you they have a big hand, just let them have it. Also, put a premium on maximizing your good hands. Do everything you can to get value on them. The might mean even limping in with AA to make sure you get a caller. Also, don't be afraid to value bet more into players who haven't shown any strength (value betting is betting with hands that you think are most likely the winners, but they aren't that strong -- like middle pair). And lastly, work on deception.

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