04-10-06, LearnTexasHoldem:
Can't Remember How To Win
Doyle Brunson among many other pros claim that aggressive poker is good poker. So in addition to the starting requirements an ABC player will raise with preflop (AA, KK, QQ, AK), I'll add in some suited connectors or AQ or even AJ in late position. However this just accelerates the rate at which im losing, because the more pots i raise preflop, the more bets im going to be making on the flop when I don't have anything. And in a $3/6 NL game online the players are pretty decent so when you bet 2/3 the pot at a 842 flop, they can pretty much figure you are just betting overcards so they either call or reraise me and then I have to let it go, and with $24 in the preflop raise and about $40 for the flop bet, I just lost about 1/6th my buyin. So a few hours go by and I lose a buyin or 2 or 3 (being aggressive) and then I'll finally catch a hand that if im lucky will bring me back to even but usually not even close. I really don't understand how Doyle claims that being aggressive is winning poker , because to me it seems that the implied odds of being in a hand with you increase and since you are bluffing more, they will simply call you more with lesser hands.
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So tighten up you say? Okay, ill tighten up to ABC poker and raise with fewer hands. But this doesnt go unnoticed, once my opponents realize ive tightened up to the top 5 raising hands, they stop calling and I get no action on my good hands and im being antied to death instead.
So maybe play a little more passive right? Try and trap people a bit more. Like limp with JJ after a few limpers and take a flop. J92! Yes! Check. Some guy bets in late position, I call. Turn is an 8. He bets the pot, I call. River is a 3. He goes allin (pot is larger than both our stacks now), so I call. He turns over QT for the str8. Now is this just a bad beat? Or did I play it incorrectly? I figured since he was betting so large on the flop, that even if he had a draw, he wasn't giving himself the correct odds, so a call by me would be the correct play. Same situation on the turn. But now that I saw there was a possible draw on the board, maybe I should have reraised to take the pot on the flop but at the same time severly limit the amount of money I could win with top set. What do you think?
Honestly, I think I need to be educated in
1. Aggression (continuation betting especially, because as far as I can tell, just because you have position and they check to you, doesn't mean you have an advantage, because they still call you or occassionally checkraise).
2. Slowplaying vs. Reraising a good hand
3. How to get paid off with your good hands when you are playing ABC poker. Help!
Answer:
This is a good question.
Let me jot down some thoughts:
- I think aggressive play means something different online than offline. What I mean by that is online you'll never see someone raise preflop and then check the flop. You'll see that all the time in no limit games offline. Now into a flop that is 8 high when you have AK with one player, go ahead and fire away a regular bet, but if you are called, do you have to fire again? The same isn't true for when you raise preflop with a hand like 55 and hit an AKJ flop. Is there any reason to bet into this? Don't feel like just because you raised preflop you are married to the hand. Good aggressiveness means that you'll get your money in with your good hands; it doesn't mean that you'll be raising every other hand trying to run over the table. I think the term "aggressiveness" in a good context should be renamed, "thoughtfulness." There are plenty of losing players that are aggressive.
- Be careful when you apply new strategy to your game because it may not be intended for your level or betting structure. No limit holdem cash games are fair tighter than tournaments. Also, as you increase in limits, the game gets looser too as the aggressiveness and willing to try and pick off bluffs increases. Generally, at a lower limit game, you shouldn't worry so much about deception. What Doyle may have intended to be used in the games he plays in may not work well at lower games. You can see this resonate when a higher limit player tries "gearing down" for a lower limit game; he has a tough time because the game is much slower and less deceptive than his usual game.
- If you are a tight player, much of your winnings come from catching other people with weaker hands -- you have AA when he has TT for example. How are you playing these? Assuming that you need to mix it your play to get action on your good hands, this is where I could recommend you start. As far as deception goes, it is much easier to cold call a raise with AA than it is to try to raise with 87s in early position. The opposition can fold to your preflop raises as much as they like, but they can't do anything when they have raised a hand and you are behind them with a stronger hand. There are different ways you can play to keep them off balance. Let me give you a couple examples. Number one, if you have AA or KK, you can call the raise and then wait to raise on the flop or on the turn. Another way might be to completely slow play the hand and never raise, just call their bets; sometimes they might push all-in on the river too, which you can call. Another way might be to intentionally overbet the hand or underbet the hand. Each of these things can mix up the opponent's thinking. The next level of deception I would try after that is to mix up my post flop bets when I'm heads up. You mentioned that the player's get tricky when the flop appears as though it has missed your hand (they assume you have overcards). Why not check the flop sometimes then when you actually have a hand. You need to allow them room to play a worse hand against yours. Occasionally checking a hand on the flop that is worth a bet can get you more action with that hand, as well as be beneficial when you do actually want to check. Lastly, stealing the blinds in a NL cash game doesn't mean much so I would avoid doing this for that reason alone. In a low limit game there will be enough action floating around that you won't need to do this to turn a profit. I think may new players see how things go in bigger games and assume that is correct for their game too, but what they find is that after they make that steal raise, they don't know how to play the hand and just end up getting themselves in hot water.
- Be less inclined to mix up your play when you aren't running well. When players don't see you winning, regardless of how you are losing, they will give your play less respect. Save the tricky plays for when you are doing well, because you'll be thinking most rationally then.
- I would recommend you practice more on betting amounts. NL holdem is nice because the structure gives you flexibility and you can communicate different things with your betting. You can trip up players reads on your hand by overbetting with a good hand, or you can underbet a good hand to accomplish the same thing. You can get free cards by betting a little and arousing suspicion. You can test the waters by betting a little. You can provoke someone into raising you by betting into them on the flop when they have raised preflop (you can do this with hands you want to reraise). You can "price someone in" with a bet, which is important with good hands. And of course you can make the occasional bluff. Don't feel like you need to do what everyone else is doing at the table by raising and betting X amount. If you make these standard bet sizes in a cash game, you rob yourself of some of the tactics. You can also send signals with the time it takes you to make the bet. If you think the opponent is a macho type or a hot head, fire away into him immediately on the flop when you want him to put all the chips in. This can challenge him and make him feel like if he folds you have one a moral battle, which can also pay dividends later. See if you can work on tuning into the psychological part of the game like this. Many of the lower limit players are
susceptible to these types of ploys. Have you ever tried reraising all-in preflop with lots of chips with AA? What you want to be thinking about is what is going through the opponent's heads. An all-in reraise preflop might be thought of like this, "there is no way this guy has AA or KK, why would he raise all-in here then?"
Let me answer your specific questions so I don't duplicate info:
1. Aggression: When someone calls you in no limit holdem, it means something. The most likely reaction you should have, if you don't have a hand, is to back off betting. To continue firing away into someone who you know will call is a mistake. Just because you see everyone else make a mistake doesn't mean you should t0o. I wouldn't pay too much attention to what $3/6 players are doing for insight. Look at it this way too: What if you miss the flop with AK and then after checking, some aggressive player bets you out because you checked? So what. Let the baby have his bottle; it's a tiny pot. You shouldn't concern yourself with losing small pots. Let them win the small ones, you take the big ones. And even if you know a guy is stealing, the amount of his steal is small, it is often better to allow it than risk more getting involved. Always compare the risk to return. Don't wager a lot to win a little. Remember, tight aggressive play doesn't mean you'll raise preflop with AK and then go all-in on every flop. The usual pattern when you have a raising hand preflop is to raise, bet the flop once if there is an opponent, and then if he calls you'll check the turn. If he check-raises, you don't have to call. Now, if you know the opponent will call, there is no reason to fire away at the flop. The reason you fire at the flop is there is a good chance your hand is good, or the opponent missed the flop too, in which case he'll muck. Position is important in no limit holdem, but it doesn't matter at all when you don't have a reasonable way of winning the hand. The vast majority of the hands you'll win in a cash game are those that are the best hand. You're not going to make a lot of money by forcing other players off their hands.
2. Slow Playing vs Reraising good hands: I talked about this some already. This is where I think you should spend most of your time. You want to think more about how to play a hand than, "I have AA, I'll reraise." There are different ways of playing hands and how you play the hand depends on which way will make the most money. Say I have AA and someone raised preflop in front of me. The first factor is my position. I don't want to let in too many people when I have AA because it will be hard for me to fold postflop if they outflop me. If needed, I'll have to reraise some just to limit the field a bit, especially if the initial raise wasn't sufficient. The next factor is how the original raiser plays. Is this guy really aggressive? Will he keep firing away at the flop if I just check and call? What are the chances he'll go all-in if I just reraise him a little preflop or on the flop? If he a really tight player that won't give me any action if I reraise now? If the player raises a lot hands preflop and you reraise him, it is likely that you won't win much more than that. A better play would be to let him get a piece of the flop and put some more money in before you raise. If you flop something really big, it is important to get value on the hand. What is better, to push all-in on the river and not get called, or bet an amount the player will call?
3. How to get paid off on the good hands: First of all, not all the hands that you'll raise with preflop, someone will have a hand to call with. So not getting called on a couple raises doesn't mean your table image is too tight. Somethings that I think you should pay attention to are:
- Learn to build a pot. NL holdem is a game of finesse as much as it is balls. One of the best ways to "get your man" is to get him pot committed before you lower the hammer; this allows you to make a bigger pot when the opponent doesn't have a big hand. You raise some preflop which builds the pot. Then you bet some on the flop, but not so much to shut him out. Then on the turn you do the same. On the river when you bet he is in a tougher spot because you haven't chased him away yet with a big bet (which normally would suggest you have a strong hand) and he is in for a lot of chips. Building pots can also mean that you just double the big blind sometimes when you would have normally called. Say you have a small pocket pair or suited connector, double the big blind a lot. This does a couple beneficial things. First you build the pot so that if you do hit, it will be worth something. Secondly, it gets used to the players seeing you raise and then not bet postflop -- you lose respect, which brings me to my next point.
- Doyle recommends raising more hands preflop to add deception and to occasionally break someone when you hit that miracle flop. Miracle flops don't come around that often so I wouldn't even worry about that. It will be hard to play in a $3/6 game and get a lot of action (action that you want) when you raise with 87s and hit a pair on the flop. The deception part is useful but you have to temper it and also look at it differently than what we have above. Tempering the playing of "mixing upper" hands means that you won't raise everyone you get and you won't do it more often than need be. You'll have days when you get nothing but suited connectors and that doesn't mean you should raise everyone (or even play everyone). You only should raise deception hands as much as you are required to get action on your good hands. (The way you look at these hands is not for their current value, but for the value they'll give you on your good hands.) Say you are playing ABC poker and getting no action, throw in a couple raises with the 87s and such. Keep in mind that these should be played as cheaply as possible though, with the goal of getting advertising. For example, you raise with the 87s and get reraised, show the hand when you fold. You want the advertising value of the hand. Or another example would be to raise preflop, miss the flop and then just check and fold when someone bets. You want to get the players used to your raising. It doesn't even have to bet a lot, just some. You can double the big blind like I said above. Make players feel like your raises don't mean as much. It is likely that they won't distinguish between how you play postflop and preflop, meaning most of them won't notice that you're betting your AA on the flop this time when you raised but you didn't bet when you raised your 22 preflop.
- Betting and getting value with your good cards is a matter of putting your opponent on a hand and then gauging his response to various amounts. I don't think to myself, "I have a very good hand, so I bet a very large amount." You think, "my opponent doesn't have much, I'm going to bet less so I can get called." Or you might think, "I know my opponent has a smaller flush than mine, I have him committed...I can bet everything." Let me give you a few examples that contrast this. Say in one hand you have 88 and the flop is 877. With this hand, if the opponent plays back at you, you can be fairly sure that he has a 7, which is a strong enough hand that you can put in all the money -- you've got him committed. Another hand you have the 88 again and the flop is 7-5-2. The turn is a 2. I would be an amount that my opponent can call. I would bet something roughly more than the odds would give him to draw against me. Going all-in here wins me nothing, or loses me everything. If I go all-in, how can he call me with a hand like A7 or 97 or something? The only way he could call is if he actually has me beat. Remember, you want to make some money on your hands. NLH isn't just a game of all-ins and shutting people out. There is postflop play. Or an even better example is having AA and the flop being A-9-7. Now with this flop, you know that your opponent doesn't have much. Here I might even bet a tiny amount on the flop and then if he just called, I would either bet a little for value or try to do something that would screw up his thinking and get him to chomp: like check or bet a little again.
Another thing I wanted to mention is that it is important not to measure the effectiveness of your strategy (like your ABC poker) on a session by session basis. It has been my experience that wins don't come in even increments. You don't win a consistent amount from one session to the next; instead, you have break even days, little wins, little losses,
then a big win. This is important to understand because it frees you up some from the "trying to win" deal. You can't make wins happen unless the cards are cooperating so your goal on those days is to lose the minimum. You don't think, "dang it, I'm down x amount...I wanted to win X amount today." You play the best you can with the cards that are given to you and that will ensure a win. If you go in and try to force things, you'll never do well. And you'll even have days that are washes because of this. I've had sessions when I'm running so badly that I play next to nothing so when I do actually get a hand, I get no action. At that point I just call it day. The cards are so bad that its created a table image that isn't worth sitting in.
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