08-16-05, LearnTexasHoldem:

Calling For 2 Outers And Such

Question: Let's say that your on the button with 22. Five players have limped in and you make a call for the minimum to see the flop and it comes up K 9 3 rainbow. On the flop the first person to act opens with a weak bet the minimum, the remaining four just call as well. So with 6 min bets on the flop, and five people limping post flop, does that make it an ideal time to reach to make a set?

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I figure it's one small, and your getting about 11 to 1 pot odds.  I know the chances of hitting another card in my set on the turn is about 22 to 1.  But with the implied odds being so great if I hit, does that make this a good call all of the time, or none of the time?
Thanks

Jesse

Answer: In limit holdem no, in no limit holdem yes. The difference is that in no limit holdem, if you do hit your hand, chances are you can make a ton with it -- the upside (implied odds) is huge. In limit holdem, how much you can pull with the draw is not nearly as much so you have to give more weight to the pot odds and less to implied odds. An important point in no limit holdem is the fantastic upside you could get if you hit your hand on wacky draws.

Hands that are more disguised are even better. Hitting a duck (deuce) on the turn might bust someone with two pair. One thing I remember from reading Super System years ago was his love of gaper hands like 85 and the likes when he could call for belly buster straights, weird ones that would be difficult to see. The benefit of these hands, if you can play them cheaply, is that it is almost impossible for someone else to put you on that hand. Because you can get so much back in return, it is correct to sometimes invest more money trying to hit them than the odds say.

For example, say you are only getting 4:1 on your money from the pot and your draw is 10:1, if the opponent is likely to pay you off huge, and he has tons of chips ("deep"), then peeling off a card to try and nail him becomes worth it. Also, taking into account the type of player you are against pays dividends. The best kind of opponent to be against in no limit holdem is a person who limps with their big cards, letting you in for cheap with trash, then gets committed to them post flop and pays you off. An example might be limping in with AK while you limp in behind them with 34, and then when the flop comes back A-3-3- or A-2-5, you get all their money.

The flip side of this is that slow playing in no limit holdem preflop is a big no no. You want to purge all the wacky hands so that you can play well post flop and not have too many tough decisions with hands that are hard to fold.

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