01-20-05, LearnTexasHoldem:
Aggression With A Draw
I feel most comfortable checking this kind of thing, happy to get a free card to make my hand, and I consider the pot odds if I am bet into and have to decide on calling.
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However there's another side to this: When I do this and it doesn't hit, I feel like I screwed myself and I don't know how to handle it. If I check it's a sign of weakness and I get run over. If I bet, I am possibly throwing money away. And the dilemma continues if I see the river and that, too, doesn't hit.
How often do you bet a draw as opposed to checking it hoping for a free card? When are the best spots to bet on a draw? (I would assume they are when you don't think your opponent got a piece of the flop, but what other times are good?) And most importantly, what are the best ways to proceed when it doesn't hit on the turn and/or the river?
Brian
Answer: In limit holdem, I usually bet my draws (flush and straight) unless I think there is a good chance the person will raise me or I'll cut off people who might give me more money later on if I hit. For example, I wouldn't want to raise a nut flush draw with people left to act behind me in case having to cold call the double bet might convince them to fold.
I'm not sure if I can give you a definite answer for how often to bet on the end if you miss completely but it would have to do with the amount of players in and what kind of player they were. This kind of play in limit holdem doesn't work that well because it is only one moe bet and usually if the opponent has called the whole way, they will call one more.
Now for no limit holdem things change some. A bet in no limit holdem has more weight and your chance for winning the pot by just betting goes way up. People are much less likely to call you with a hand like middle pair like they might in limit holdem if you were to bet your draw instead of checking. The downside is that you have the potential to get raised and then you are in a bad spot because you have already invested so much in the hand.
This is why most of the time, I won't overplay my draws unless I think there might be a chance that I can win with a raise/bet right there (or it is a very strong draw). Overplay means being too aggressive with the hand. Let me illustrate this by contrasting two hands. Let's say you had AQs and raised preflop and got a couple callers. The flop gave you the nut flush draw and it is only 8 high (something like 8s - 5s - 4h). If someone bet here, a raise would be the best move because not only do they not know what I have (I could have a big pair), but I also have overcards in addition to the flush draw. My chances of winning there are huge.
On the other hand, let's say I had a hand like 89c and I limped in behind another couple players. The flop gives me a straight draw and someone comes out betting in front of me (J - T - 4). In this case I would have to think hard about raising, especially if there were people left to act behind me, because I have no idea what the person has and I could easily get reraised. A raise there probably wouldn't win the pot because even if the person who raised preflop didn't have a big pair, that flop gives them a lot of outs. If they do have a big pair, I'll probably get put all-in (which definitely isn't what I'm looking for).
Next, when you play no limit it is very important to gauge your hand strength based on position post flop (preflop is important but not nearly so as postflop for no limit). In limit holdem you might just call with weak hands in the middle if someone bet and there were players left to act behind you but in no limit you have to be more cautious because you have no idea what will happen yet even in that one betting round. You may call a decent size bet and then it gets raised so much behind you that you have to muck and lose all that money for no reason.
Often times in no limit holdem, I'll even give up some hands because I'm in early position out of the blinds and the board looks so connected that the chance of my hand holding up if I get called is so low. That's a big tip for both holdem styles -- before you invest a bunch in a hand, try to estimate how it will develop. Some people may say, "fold top pair, but I have the best hand now?" That is true but there are a million ways the hand can go wrong by the river if you aren't already beat so it's just best to save your money for a better hand.
How I proceed on the turn and river when I completely miss my draw depends primarily on pot odds (for no limit). You may have hands when you can bluff or semi-bluff but by-and-large you'll need to hit with those cards to win. Like I said above, if I have been pacified to just calling, then most of my decision making will be how much money I'll get in return for what I invest to draw. Sometimes it works out that you hit on the turn and everything is fine, other times you miss and the person bets too much to see the river so you have to fold.
Then there are also times when the opponent doesn't bet enough on the turn card to skew the odds so you can peal off another card -- I really don't like that play though. There are definitely times when you should call to the river but I don't like it when I'm playing no limit. In no limit holdem my approach is usually more of an all or nothing style, either I'm the one in the driver's seat or I shouldn't be in the hand to begin with.
I'll finish up here with a few more random thoughts about this topic. First, for no limit holdem the role I try to take when I play is a humble cautious one, not a aggressive viscous betting machine. The reason is that no limit is a game where one mistake can cost you your entire stack. I'm perfectly content with folding a few small pots when I might have had the best hand because I know that a few hands down the road I'll trap the opponent and take his/her entire stack (if I have that many chips). Draws are decent hands but most of the time they don't hit, only about a third of the time.
If you consistently put in more money than you should with them based on what the return will be, you will lose. Second, try not to get attached to any specific hand in no limit holdem. You don't want to feel like you "need" to win this pot because you haven't done well with others that day. Third, much of your play in no limit holdem is based on what you assume your opponent has and how he will play.
If you are playing low limit holdem, it is a fair assumption people will call more than they should so semi-bluffs lose some of their value because the person won't release a weak hand that the extra bet might have won against a better player; however, you do have spots where you can be aggressive and take down the pot with a raise or bet but they won't be often.
Lastly, I like straight draws more than flush draws. Flush draws are more obvious than straight draws are so the chance of you getting more action after you catch is slim. Even the worst players are aware that there is a flush potential. Likewise, flush draws usually provide more "redraws." A redraw is when for example you hit your small flush on the turn but the person has a larger card in his hand that if a fourth card of that suit hits on the river you lose. Those sting.
Ok that finishes up my rambling. Hopefully that was a little helpful.
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