04-27-06, LearnTexasHoldem:
Proving Yourself At Bigger Limits (short handed play)
I like to play a bit of every type of poker on-line (hold'em, full-table, shorthanded, limit, no limit, Omaha, Omaha H/L, Stud, tourneys, etc.), but my main game (biggest money winner) has always been shorthanded limit hold'em ring games. I got into a rut for quite a while and burned through my bankroll at .50/$1, tilting after being drawn out on many times.
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Frustrated and tilting, I moved up to $2/$4 with only about $100 left in my roll. I know, not the smartest thing in the world to do, considering the average buy-in is usually around $80. However, I won. I got on a table that seemed perfect. There was the idiot who raised everything regardless of his hand that would pay off on your good hands; there were a couple tight players who would always fold on the flop to a bet if they missed. If these guys bet, it was easy to get out of their way. And a calling station who always seemed to lose, but kept reloading cash into his rack completed the table. Not to mention, I was getting great cards. I ended up winning about $150 after a few hours of play.
Encouraged by this, I continued playing for over a week at this limit and banked about $600, pretty big for what I am used to winning. The last time my bankroll saw that kind of dough, it took me 3 months to accumulate it.
Now I know "the rules" say you should have 300 times the big blind to allow for statistical variations, but I was killing this game playing about 4 hours a day. For some reason, people just seemed so much easier to read at the higher limit (than .50/$1), so I maximized my good hands, and knew when to fold my second best hands.
I did get ahead of myself a little, moving up to $3/$6, where I got hammered with some bad luck, and probably better play. It happened after that first golden week I had, on my first losing day where I had already lost about $150 at 2/4. I ended the day down about $350. I took a couple days off and thought about my play, which I honestly believe was pretty good, but a break never fails to put me in a better state of mind after a losing session.
Coming back refreshed, I went down a rack or two at 2/4, only to come back hard. I had an incredible day: bullets holding up with lots of action, flush draws hitting better than average, top pair winning with chasers missing. It felt great. I ended up winning back all that I had lost on that bad day, with a little to spare.
Therefore, my questions are:
1. While I am perfectly content playing 2/4 shorthanded, on the odd day when I have a bad session, it seems to always coincide with being at a table with a bunch of calling stations and maniacs, which reminds me a lot of when I used to play .50/$1. I know these are the worst players in the game, and the most lucrative, so why can I not beat them? How should I adjust my play to them? While one or maybe even two are great, when the whole table is like that, I usually just switch tables (obviously, this is really easy online), to prevent a loss. However, I want these guys' money who are so eager to give it up. Not to mention, I plan to try live games soon, so changing tables is not as easy, and not a really good solution. Any ideas?
2. Is there any rule of thumb about when you should move up to the next limit? I have consistently beat 2/4 (largely due to table selection I think) and am tempted to move up to 3/6, but would like to round out my game against these "inferior" opponents before I move up. I think I am adequately bankrolled now to move up, but I don't want to throw it all away moving up too fast.
3. I have heard that as you move up in limits at online sites, the chances of people cheating gets higher (this makes sense). At .50/$1, there were no shortage of new faces, but at $2/$4, it is rare if I do not know someone seated there, even in shorthanded games. It is harder to spot if they are just figuring out my style and beating me at my game or if they are cheating. Because many people play multiple tables, it is hard to avoid players who are both on the same 2 or 3 tables. With instant messaging so readily available (not to mention the telephone), it worries me that I might be risking big money as I move up in limit with the odds stacked against me. Am I worrying too much? Any ideas on what to look for to spot when this is happening?
Thanks so much for your help and time.
Daniel
"bkkt" - PokerStars
Answer:
1. There could be a number of reasons why you aren't doing well with loose aggressive players or maniacs. Are you sure you have given it enough time? In action games, your variation will be much greater. You'll make more money in the long run, but you'll have much more ups and downs. Given that you have put in enough time with them, it may be that your style of play is being countered by their play -- whether it is their good play or mistakes.
To illustrate this, think what would happen if a maniac ran into a calling station. The maniac bets every hand, regardless of what he has, and the calling station just calls with any hand. One style kind of negates the other. The more the maniac bets with nothing, the more the calling station calls with next to nothing. He just keeps picking off the other guys bluffs. You may be neither of these player types, but you can still run into similar trouble. Typically, a maniac and a calling station are opposites, so you wouldn't usually have trouble with both types of players. My guess is that you aren't adjusting based on the opponent. With a calling station player, you want to value bet, but not put in too many bets with weak hands, because you know he'll always call; you just throw your money away when you keep firing with nothing.
An example of this might be to bet middle or second pair to the river into the calling station, but not betting Ace high or just overcards past the flop. On the other hand, you need to also adjust to the maniac and call more. If you know he'll keep firing into you if you just check, then its hard to put him on any hand. His bet doesn't mean he has anything. Against this type of player you want to call or reraise with hands that do well heads up, then go farther with the hands than you would against a standard player.
I think what you are doing now is probably playing the same way against each player type, meaning you get run over when you play the maniac -- you fold too much, and you end up over betting your hands like missed AKs against the calling station. Now you should work on your game to combat these types of players, but if you favor other games, play those instead. The bottom line is to always play in the game that you do best in. Some players prefer wild games, other players prefer tighter games.
2. No, there aren't any rules for when you move up limits. Usually it is done because of money. You beat the game so much and you build up your roll, so you want more, and move up. What you'll find at bigger games, all though there may not be much of a difference between 2/4 and 3/6, is that the players become more aggressive and also defend more with weaker hands. I'm telling you this because when I first started playing shorthanded poker a long time ago, my first instinct was that the guys weren't good players because they didn't make standard ring game play (10 person play). Only after time did I realize that they were playing pretty well.
3. To be honest, it would be pretty unlikely that anyone with an effective way of cheating would waste their time playing low limit holdem. Any team who had a method would most likely hit bigger games like 30/60 and up. Collusion is harder than it seems. Most players who are stupid enough to try it, will do something really obvious like cap it on the flop when a teammate has a big hand. That's so easy to catch though, you don't have to worry about it. If you do see someone suspicious, just report it to the poker room.
The poker rooms have hand logs of all the player's play so they can see the history of the individual player as well as that of the player when he is with his team. Also, most poker clients have ways of detecting if IM programs are running, from looking at your process list to taking screen captures. And when you get too bigger games, it becomes easier to tell if players are cheating because you play with the same guys day-after-day. So there is always the chance of collusion and I'm sure players try all the time, but I wouldn't be too concerned about it.
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