05- 3-05, LearnTexasHoldem:
No Limit Holdem - Flush Gets There
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- He folds Kx thinking I have a flush
- He reraises whith the flush so I can fold...
But what happens if he just calls, I would think he tries get more money from me on the river or maybe he hasn't got the flush and he doesn't think I have it. If I check on the river, I show weakness and expose my self to a big uncallable bet against someone who may not have the best hand but if I bet I don't want to put any money in a pot I've already lost...
I think the best is betting on the turn, folding if I get raised, and checking on the river if he has'nt got the flush He might not raise to avoid being trapped. But I'm not shure. Most of no-limit litterature I have talks about drawing hands but to the point of the 'drawer' so I havn't found any solution to my problem.
What do you think is the best play? or where can I find an article about this problem on your site?
Thank you,
All the Best,
Chris
Answer: First of all, thanks for the question; I don't think I've answered this one directly yet. You've isolated the key points in this problem. The first problem is if you play weakly and get bet out of the pot. The second problem is that you don't want to walk directly into a trap if you can avoid it. Lastly, you want to actually get value for your good hands and checking doesn't make much money.
Let's start with getting pushed out of the pot. If you bet the flop and check the turn when the flush hits, you are basically giving your opponent the chance of putting in a regular size bet and making it uncomfortable for you. If you are going to call a certain size of bet, it is almost always better to put the money in yourself first (unless you have good reason to do otherwise).
Next, notice that even if your opponent isn't particularly aggressive or tricky, you've given him an easy place to bluff. And if he does bet, it could mean anything -- you have no information. So obviously checking on the turn won't do into most opponents. What we would like to do is put in a prohibitive bet, or a defensive bet that would get some more money in the pot, but also make it more difficult for someone to put a pure bluff on us.
If you bet a little less than you normally would, the player has to double that to raise -- that works as a deterrent. One thing to note too is that a scare card on the turn is often just as scary to the person who is in the pot with you as it is to your hand.
On the river we are faced with a similar problem as the turn, but the key difference being that the opponent called the turn bet and is now most likely committed to the pot. At this point, you have to assume that most players have some kind of hand. At this point in no limit holdem cash games, I like to check hands I will call with and bet hands that if raised I'll fold; I know that seems odd and counterintuitive. See what I'm trying to avoid now is having my opponent fold a worse hand, and only call or raise when I'm beat.
Let's say with your example the opponent had a King with a weak kicker and you bet the river too, he might actually consider folding. On the other hand if he has you beat with a flush or two pair, he'll raise. By checking the river you might get him to bet a fair amount and you'll pick him off. Now I don't take this same approach with all players. I take this approach with very tight players and very aggressive players. I want to exploit the aggressive player's weakness on the river by allowing him to bet a worse hand. With loose passive players or new players, I think I would probably bet the river more often. If I get raised, I'll just muck or call if the odds are right.
I won't check the river against bad players since most of the time they'll still call me with a worse hand other than the flush. I would be losing a lot of money against them if I always gave them credit for the nuts. Knowing the type of player you are against is really helpful in any decision process. And remember, if the player isn't capable of a large bluff, then don't call their raises when the only way you could win is if they were bluffing.
Another thing to keep in mind is the way the flop looks with respect to your opponent's table image. For example, if I raise preflop with KK and the flop is 7-5-2 with two diamonds and I'm against a very tight opponent, I have to give him a lot of credit if he calls the turn when the flush completes. On the other hand if I'm against a really bad player with the same flop, I can't narrow his hands down as much, and it is realistic that he has some trash that I can still beat. Also, if the flop had a high card on it, I might have a harder time giving the opponent credit for a flush; say the flop was Q-7-3. The opponent could have KQ, AQ, QJ, or anything else to call with.
My last point is something that I mentioned on my intro to no limit holdem play: It has been my experience that it is really rare in a NLH cash game for one pair to be the winning hand if you get raised on the river after betting the whole way. I would suggest that you try to make as much money from weak opponents as you can with your good hands, but give them ample respect when they raise. Being stubborn is costly and most of the time things are exactly how they seem. It is easy to rationalize a call when your gut says you should muck.
Also, when someone is capable of bluffing you out of a pot, they will usually overuse the play so it isn't hard to spot them and adjust. So let's go through this once more now. In a NLH heads up pot when I have a betting hand and the flush gets there, I'll bet a fair amount on the turn into the opponent (regardless of the type of opponent). On the river, depending on the texture of the flop and the respect I give the player, I'll check some of the time in hopes to get extra bets from an aggressive player, or bet into bad players and fold if I get raised. Note that you don't have to keep betting more at this point, a bet the size of the turn bet is fine.
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